The Fallible Man

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A Different Kind of Man a different kind of Lifestyle

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Fatherhood, Family and Faith


S02E34

[00:00:00] Evan Herrman: And say, we want to get rid of fathers. Well, then they're doing that culture, a disservice in any culture who tries to get rid of father hood in the family, because here's why

[00:00:12] David Dowlen: be better tomorrow because of what you do today.

[00:00:16] Evan Herrman: Dude, that was an awesome intro. I love it. Done. Done.

[00:00:20] David Dowlen: Thank you everyone. Welcome to the valuable man podcast.

[00:00:24] It's great to actually put together a face with a name I've I've talked to you online. Uh, it's nice to actually put together a person actually.

[00:00:33] Evan Herrman: Well, man, it's a pleasure. And thank you for your patience. For those of you that don't know he was extremely patient with me. Cause I think I flaked on him. Was it once or twice?

[00:00:44] David Dowlen: I don't know. I don't keep track. You know, we were making it happen.

[00:00:48] Evan Herrman: I appreciate it. I had a couple family, different things come up and you were just so understandable. So thank you for knowing that that's not my character, but it's just a part of being a person right now.

[00:01:01] David Dowlen: Well, call me a crappy Hubei cast host.

[00:01:03] I've had some guests who actually prefer it, but I read all your accolades and stuff before we ever get together. People don't understand. There's a lot that happens behind the scenes and I can read all your accolades and I can read all the blurbs, but it really doesn't mean crap to anybody. Right. Tell people who is Evan.

[00:01:19] Herman, why are you here today? Am I saying that right? Herman? Yup.

[00:01:22] Evan Herrman: You got it. You know, I'm here today. One because you allowed me to, so thank you. And the other aspect is as a husband, as a follower, sorry. As a father, as a husband, as a father. There is a, there is a cultural war against us, whether we'd like to believe it or not.

[00:01:50] And we need to stand our ground in kindness and love. And with the same hands that we love our family, we able to fight this cultural war and standard. For manhood stand up and our families and being the individual that God has called us to be, to lead our family.

[00:02:13] David Dowlen: So Evan, tell us a little bit about your podcast, right?

[00:02:16] Evan Herrman: Yeah. So it's called the whole person podcast and we focus on spiritual growth in a biblical manner in the areas of spirit, mind, and body. And those areas include faith, family, finances, friendship, fitness. So I, I am a Christian. And what I've learned is that there's a lot of good information out there in the world, in books.


[00:02:41] And at the end of the day, the thing that has helped me most is going back to my biblical roots and see. The things in the Bible when it comes to prosperity or the things about leadership in my family or about peace, you know, there's so many areas of life that that book affects. And I just learned like, you know, what, how could I grow as a whole person in a biblical way?

[00:03:05] And so that's basically the gist of the podcast. Now I interview guests on my podcast. So it's not just me talking and I've had some fantastic guests. Yeah. I've interviewed, um, Michael Hyatt, Angela Duckworth. You don't have to be a Christian to be on my podcast. Uh, Andy Andrews, bestselling authors. Um, my hundredth episode is getting ready to come out, who I have Kevin Sorbo, Kevin Sorbo, Hercules.


[00:03:33] And now he's my 100th episode. Um, I know, right. Just wait, just wait. I got one more for ya. Okay. My most famous guests I've ever had. He let me interview him for five minutes and it's the only time my audio ever failed. How important this person has to be to only give me five minutes. Okay. Mark Cuban, mark Cuban.

[00:03:56] And it's the only time my audio fail.

[00:04:00] David Dowlen: I think in finance, that's been a personal journey in the last year or two for me is learning about finances. So man, that name rings a bell hard. Right? How did you even

[00:04:11] Evan Herrman: land that? Um, I, I was a, what do you call it? Beta testing, an app that they rolled out of his, and it was for podcasting.

[00:04:23] And so I was in one of the conversations with him and no one was talking to him and there's like 30 of us in the conversation on the app. And so I just broke the ice because everyone was kind of just talking, but mark was there present. Okay. Mark's here. Like let's talk to him. And so I just started a five minute dialogue with him and I went to audio record on my phone, like a screen record, an audio report, but it didn't record the audio.

[00:04:51] And I had a really good five minutes of him. And I'll actually tell you one of the best pieces of vices. He said. So how do you become a whole person? No, you're mark Cuban. You have so much going on. And he goes, well, it took me a long time to become here. He goes, but I'm able to become a whole person because I lived out of balance for so long.


[00:05:11] And I was like interesting. He focused on something in his life that would later allow him to have balance in all areas, which was business, um, and growing the wealth that he wanted. Now he has the time and the freedom and he just to choose whatever he wants to. And so I use that as an example, like, Hey, you know what, sometimes I need to live a little out of balance towards my health so that I can be here longer and show up better for my family show up better for my business show up better in my life.

[00:05:45] Sometimes, you know, I need to dive in a little more spiritually because I'm, I'm kind of dry in that area and I need to spiritually lead my family in. So what I've learned in this process of becoming a whole person. There's actually times that it's called for, to live out a balance because it's going to help us actually live better in other areas, but it's not living 100% out of balance forever in learning what season you're in.

[00:06:11] And so that was, that was an amazing aha that I've never had.

[00:06:17] David Dowlen: Um, I'm not sure anybody who is quote unquote successful, right. And there are a lot of variations and measurements that people use. Say what success really is, right. Only you can find success for yourself, but I've found very few people in the world who actually would quote unquote, call themselves successful, who didn't have at least a season or two or three where there wasn't a balance, right?

[00:06:43] Because if you spend your whole life trying to be balanced, you'll never be great at one thing or another, because there's just not time and energy for it. Right. There's only so much of you. Yeah, it will hold. There's only so much time, but everybody has the same 24 hours, but there's only so much of you that you can put out in a day.

[00:07:01] And so it's like, you have to, my wife was right. It's like Olympians training for years before the games. Right. There's no balance there. Right? It's nutrition and practice nutrition and practice. Right. That's all their life is for years. Uh, some of the biggest guys in the world, you know, mark Cuban. How many, how many 20 hour days did he have where he is, right.

[00:07:27] Evan Herrman: I'm sure.

[00:07:29] David Dowlen: Let me ask you, cause we're, we're going to like, just plant some flags hard today. Evan, do you believe in a traditional family structure? Yes. Is that just a, is that personal? Is that because it's biblical to you or both

[00:07:46] Evan Herrman: or both?

[00:07:50] David Dowlen: So let's, let's define this a traditional family structure, right. As it's defined, most of the time is a man, a woman and their children.

[00:08:00] Yeah.

[00:08:01] Evan Herrman: Yeah, no, we're here

[00:08:04] David Dowlen: and we're going to piss people off, but I'm okay with that. It's time to plant some flags in the ground. You

[00:08:09] Evan Herrman: know, I'm all about it. Yeah. Yes. If you want to piss people off, I'm a great person to have on the show because I am a white, religious, conservative male,

[00:08:19] David Dowlen: just saying I was reading your podcasts in your bio notes and it's like, yep.

[00:08:25] We're going to step on a lot of toes today. It's going

[00:08:27] Evan Herrman: to be good. That I absolutely love everyone. And I'm not someone who shuts people out or down having different viewpoints. So I'm not, I'm not a healer.

[00:08:39] David Dowlen: That's one of the things that blows my mind in today's society. It's we have lost the ability as a people to have conversations and have different pencil points of view and go, okay.

[00:08:51] Okay. That's cool. It doesn't change how I feel about. It doesn't change my respect for you or the, I recognize you as an individual with value. We just don't agree. Right. We we've lost that somewhere in society. I'm not sure. How would the society that claims to love education? Right? We push everybody towards college.

[00:09:12]

[00:09:14] Evan Herrman: How we lost discourse? No, I can. I, can I share? No. So one of the things is. We make our beliefs in our systems, an identity separate from, okay, let me, let me rephrase this. Outside of Christianity, my biblical personal views. A lot of people hold to their beliefs as doctrine and serve and worship their beliefs.

[00:09:50] And because of that, If you don't agree with these said beliefs, then you're not accepting me. And if you can't accept me, how dare you, I have to hate you now. But what they don't understand is that as you were saying, we can have differences of opinions and still accept and love one another. That doesn't mean we have to accept each other's things, but we can accept each other as humans.

[00:10:17] And what that boils down to. Is basically creating false idols. And so we placed these identities in these things that if you can't agree with this, I need to reject you. And I say that as a false idol, because how many times in history have we seen cultures worship false gods and build false things in F you don't worship this.

[00:10:46] If you don't believe what I believe. Not only are, am I going to reject you? Because I have the authority. I now want to kill you. And that seeped into our culture and it seeped into our political system because now more so in the woke crowd, if you can't agree with me now I have to ruin your life. So it's false idols and it's a false spirit of religion.

[00:11:09] David Dowlen: Deep thought to process all that. Yeah. People, uh,

[00:11:13] Evan Herrman: well, we can talk about it now, if you want,

[00:11:14] David Dowlen: what will people rush into things? I actually tease my wife who is doing a great job, running the show in the background for us. And my wife takes her time to think about things. I'm a quick, quick decision kind of guy.

[00:11:31] Right? I I've, I snapped judgements. I decided things I I'm very fast in my thought process normally, but yeah know, I'm she's right. I am a road runner. I just. Fly through I'm quick. I'm snap judgments. And so she is a slower thinker. I don't know if you've ever done like the personality exams, right? We're um, polar opposites.

[00:11:57] Oh yeah. And my wife wants to slow down and contemplate it and work it through and play all of it. I do. I just do it at a much faster rate. And so I think a lot of times we rush to, and I think it's one of the problems we rushed to judgment. Right? We want that we're in that microwave society, you know, I'm talking about instant gratification, so we have to make instant decisions instead of actually like really percolating and weighing thoughts and, you know, doing due diligence to think about

[00:12:29] Evan Herrman: things.

[00:12:30] And again, I, you know, it comes into personality traits, you know, there's people who are more stoic in their thinking and yeah. Pondering and some of the greatest books and theologians and historians are percolators and then there's guys like you and I that like to get stuff done and we want to fly like rockets.

[00:12:53] We need both, and it's learning how to find a balance and harmony. And that is an area that I've struggled in. So on the disc personality test, You have D which is dominant. And then like the polar opposite is a C, which is, you know, very analytical. And I've had to really develop my analytical side as a person.

[00:13:19] And what's so funny about these personality tests is we think that we're stuck in these boxes, like, okay, I'm this way. So I'm going to be this way forever. But as many people who do or don't know, I don't know. Grains there's plasticity in them, which means that they're moldable, they're changeable in the title of my friend's book, personality.

[00:13:41] Isn't permanent. We can change our personalities. Now we're going to have specific characters in defaults in us, but we don't have to remain. Programs the way we are, we can work at changing our mental programming. And so one of the things that I've done, because as a value fallible, man, I've really struggled in that area of being able to be analytical and critically thinking and take longer time to process.

[00:14:11] And when I find that in people, I value that so much more now because it's so difficult for me where 10 years ago, like, dude, we're working together, you're overthinking this, get out of my way. Let's just get this done. And then I'm really taking this off. It's like, no, you're moving too fast. You could screw things up.

[00:14:32] There's that dichotomy. But learning how to function in between the two that's the best

[00:14:37] David Dowlen: you gotta learn to value the other person. Positives, right? Yeah.

[00:14:43] Evan Herrman: Yeah. It really helps in marriage. When you learn how to value each other,

[00:14:48] David Dowlen: you were describing in your podcast summary, you're climbing the quote unquote dream, right?

[00:14:53] You're working your way up through the corporate ladder onto business and finance and working too. And you had said you had lots of good mentors, so you were climbing really quickly to success as people call it. Right. And put it up there. It wasn't, it wasn't what you thought it was going to read the right bio.

[00:15:17] That's what your bio says on your podcast actually.

[00:15:21] Evan Herrman: Um, yeah, so I think what I meant by writing that, and I'm going to have to go look at that and make sure I articulated it the way I'm thinking in my head is, you know, we all strive for success. As a fallow eligible person, I look at where I am versus where I want to be.

[00:15:44] And then also where there's people and mentors and individuals who are famous that speak through, you know, seminars and stuff like that. And I'm like, great. I'm glad you're there. How do I get there from where I'm at? There's this disconnect between. Where you're at, where I want to be and where I am and where I want to be.

[00:16:06] And I've just learned how to love myself in the process of growth and change. And it wasn't until doing that, that I start seeing big strives in my life. And the other aspect too, is always wanting to learn, to grow and to change. And being willing to be mentored by people like that has helped me in my career and in my business so many times, whether that was when I sold insurance to now being a real estate agent eight years, and I have a broker's license.

[00:16:42] David Dowlen: Congratulations. I know that takes some pepper and time. So congratulations on that. I appreciate.

[00:16:48] Evan Herrman: Congratulations. I have the license. I don't have a brokerage. I'll be specific.

[00:16:52] David Dowlen: Well, but you've got to give the license before you can even start in the brokerage. So right now, how did your family play into that role?

[00:17:01] Let me, let me ask you first

[00:17:03] Evan Herrman: married. Yes, married and I have, uh, sorry, county for a second. Um, I have. A total of five children. Wow. Reboot boys into angel, baby.

[00:17:20] David Dowlen: I thought we should quantify the, since we are talking about like husband and father roles, we should quantify you are qualified as both. They have been

[00:17:29] Evan Herrman: bothered.

[00:17:29] Yes, I am. Yeah. I've been married 11 years and three boys and two angel babies. That's awesome.



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[00:18:22] David Dowlen: We're back with Evan Herman discussing, leading your family as a father and a husband with the push to break down the traditional family.

[00:18:30] Why do you believe that men should lead in their respective roles in the family? So,

[00:18:37] Evan Herrman: yeah. How real and even political. Could I be, first of all,

[00:18:46] David Dowlen: legitimate go all the way, man.

[00:18:49] Evan Herrman: I'm going to use this as an example. Okay. One of the worst organizations in our country right now is black lives matter. Why do you hate black people?

[00:19:01] You know, I don't hate black people. Black people are amazing. I've tons of black friends. I can't count. So I say that to say, why does black lives matter? Really suck as an organization because one, they don't do anything to actually help black communities. But here's the thing. I started doing research on the organization and they want to destroy the nuclear family.

[00:19:30] They want to get rid of what they call the massage monistic male view in relationships. Take fathers out of the house and for an organization to be pro black and say, we want to get rid of fathers. Well, then they're doing that culture, a disservice in any culture who tries to get rid of father hood in the family, because here's why the African-American community right now is around 70% fatherless in, in, in the community.

[00:20:07] Which is very staggering back 60 years ago. Uh, it's probably more his past, so early sixties and sooner it was around FDR, uh, Franklin D Roosevelt Roosevelt around that era. They had like 80% nuclear family, but now it's plopped to where there's only like 20 to 25% nuclear. Okay. But yet we are seeing higher incarceration rates in that community group.

[00:20:40] We're seeing higher uneducated individuals who can't graduate high school in that specific demographic. And when we look at it, it's the highest demographic of fatherlessness in the home. When you compare people who have nuclear families versus people who don't, those that have nuclear family. Not only are much stronger, but the children in the family are much healthier as well.

[00:21:10] And they have better advantages because you have two incomes on average versus one income or lack thereof because they're taking care of their kids. So they're on government aid. When you have nuclear family, the education aspect of that child is actually much stronger as well. Not saying that, you know, the father makes sure everything comes together because there's fathers who are in a family, but non-existent, and those aren't good either.

[00:21:41] And so when you looking at fatherhood and we look at the demographics, whether it's, uh, in the African-American culture or even white, Asian, whatever, w you see a highlight. Rate of incarceration without fathers in the home. And you will see less education without fathers in the home as well. And so when there's this cultural war against masculinity and men in the home, then I have to ask myself why, why, if they know the statistics, which they do, why do they want less educated people?

[00:22:20] Why do they want. People at a higher incarceration rate and what it comes down to is because you can control people more. If you make people dependent on you, if people are less educated and if there's less leadership and the family and men to teach leadership and provide, you can control people a lot.

[00:22:46] And so I'm not like a conspiracy theorist. That's like, okay. The government's always out to get you. And no, I don't think that's intentional, but that's what happens. And so as a spiritual leader of my house, it is my obligation to provide for my family. It is my obligation to take care of the safety and education of my children.

[00:23:07] And I want to make sure they're doing a good job, which means that I have to be intentional in there. And so this war against masculinity, the term toxic masculinity, or trying to re define what masculinity is and it's complete BS. And when we lose that, we lose the things that help us grow and dare, I even say draws closer to them.

[00:23:43] Because men are supposed to be the detectors. Men are supposed to leave the house. Spiritually men are supposed to be an example of God, the father in their house.

[00:23:56] David Dowlen: We're onto the question of the show. Guys. Do you think men should step up and lead by example as a husband or father and, or. Or is that a thing of the past?

[00:24:10] I want you to guys comment, whether you're listening on the podcast or watching it on YouTube. I check all my comments personally. I respond to almost all of them, unless you're trying to sell porn because YouTube is literally that jog. Evan. Are you familiar with the concept of servant leadership?

[00:24:28] Evan Herrman: Yes, very much so.

[00:24:30] David Dowlen: So in your opinion, do you think that this is the kind of leadership that a husband or father. Should exhibit when leading their family?

[00:24:40] Evan Herrman: Well, yeah, 100%. And then there's other times that it's going to look different. You know, we can't paint this into a box that this is how it has to look because God has created men differently.

[00:24:56] He's created relationship dynamics differently, but at the end of the day, God has called us. To be like Jesus to our spouses in our family and Jesus washed the feet of the disciple. Jesus came to serve and not be served. There are a lot of different ideas about what a husband and father look like. There are toxic things as well.


[00:25:30] I have a friend who's like, no, I'm not ever going to cook. No, I'm not. That's the woman's job. Like, look, dude, I cook, I clean, I wash my kids. I bathed my kids. I am involved in everything that goes on in my house. I'm not a dictator. I lead by example. And if I need to teach my family something that I need to teach my children something, I best be able to be able to do it or be willing to do.

[00:25:55] And so that's what servant leadership looks like. And then there's other times where I'm going to just have to tell my kids, like, no, you go to told you to do it before. And there's times where you have to step up and be a little more. Oh, what's the word? Gruff. That's a good word though. You're whining.

[00:26:16] Listen, and just lay down the law and. Here's another thing too, that this is probably going to get me in trouble with the feminazis. I loved it. That term. I bless your soul rush. I miss you. Um, there are moments in marriages and I'm sure you have experienced this sprint and. You've laid down, like, Nope, we disagree and we're doing it my way.

[00:26:53] And I don't pull that card that often, because if you pulled that card every single time, then that's just egotistical. You need to know when to use it. But there have been moments in our lives where I looked at my wife and I said, I love your wife disagree, and we're doing it my way, because I said that.

[00:27:18] Is, I think this is what's best for our family and it's on me. If I'm wrong to try and make a long story short, we had seven financial hits in 2018. We had four ER, bills, two surgeries, a lost pregnancy, and we lost both of our vehicles. A span of 48 hours, like a car wreck and then a breakdown on the other one.

[00:27:51] So we had no car and like zero finances. We both worked, but I made a decision not to go into debt. I put my flag in the ground. I said, no more. And then the shit hits the fan. And that was the world's way of like, do you really, you really believe the no more debt? And my wife's like, Hey, look. Let's need another car.

[00:28:18] I said, no, no, I'm no, I'm not going into more debt. And in a matter of a week, the insurance company, Hey, you know what, we're going to give you a rental. And that rental lasted a month, month and a half until we got our car back. That was in the wreck, which was great. Now we have one. But then around that time, uh, we had a family member that was going out of state for half a year and let us borrow a little car.

[00:28:48] So we borrowed another one for about six months. And in that time we saved up and we bought a car debt free. And when I stuck my flag in the ground, I said, I don't know how this is going to happen, but I believe that there's a better outcome than debt. And because of that, We are in debt because of it.

[00:29:10] And that was a catalyst for me to get my student loans paid off. It was the catalyst for us to pay off our storm shelter was the catalyst to pay off that Prius that I had. And I think we paid off about $30,000 of debt in a year and got two new vehicles to ourselves. We just become outrageously blessed, but it all came from.


[00:29:36] Doing what I felt like God tell me to do financially. And I followed his rule and I followed his leading and it was different than what my wife wanted at first. And it turned out being one of the greatest blessings that we'd ever seen in our life. Can I share a story? Yeah. Guarantee you if I didn't let the gauntlet down at least twice, my wife and I would be dead.

[00:30:01] I can assure you once for sure. Maybe even two times it was newly married and my wife wanted, like, our marriage was pretty Rocky for the first three years. Like she put up with a lot. And so did I, that was by God's grace. We made it through. But I remember like at a very Rocky week to like help heal and reconcile and like have some fun, we decided to go.

[00:30:33] Pack the car. And as we're walking out the door or leave, I get this, Evan don't go in my spirit. I told my wife, Hey, I really don't think we're supposed to go. And this was not one of her best moments in reacting. And she was extremely upset. It caused, fighting for about eight or nine hours. And then she became really grateful really quick, because guess what?

[00:31:03] There was a tornado in the campground. We were going to fast forward several years. We were supposed to go to a cousin's wedding. I just didn't. I didn't have peace. No, she didn't really fight me on this one, but I just didn't have peace about going. So I chose not to go. I'm not kidding. On what would have been our drive home?

[00:31:26] There were two separate tornadoes at different parts where we would have been like, I did the math at said time. We would have been in this location or this location. And we had a chance to get hit by two tornadoes on the way back. How do we gone live in Oklahoma? Yeah. And so, but not just that, that that's happened multiple times in our life.

[00:31:48] And so you're right. It's not the authoritarian. I'm a man. I have something over you, woman lined up and submit. It is not that because remember Christ laid down his life for the church, his bride, and he calls us to do the same for our family. So don't think for one second that this is an authoritarian thing.

[00:32:12] I have an upper hand in my relationship because I don't. I'm the one called to die in the relationship. When we do come into disagreements, several things happen, we pray, we talk things through. And then if I feel really strongly, we'll normally go with what I'm feeling and feeling like God speaking to me about it.

[00:32:37] She feels really strongly. And I don't really like, ah, I kinda like this idea better. No, then we'll go with hers. It's learning how to discern. And then there's some times like, you know what, I've got to make a few decisions more so recently. And you know, what, if you just have this preference more, let's just go with that because I want to serve and honor you.

[00:33:00] And so it's learning how to work in partnership with your spouse. And then also understand like when you need to lead, even if it's not going to be. So

[00:33:15] David Dowlen: Evan, what is next for Evan? Herman?

[00:33:19] Evan Herrman: I'm actually, I'm creating a ministry right now called evangelism. Now 50% of people in the church don't know about the great commission millennials, 50% of Christian millennials think evangelism, meaning spreading the gospel on purpose.

[00:33:42] Is wrong. So therefore I'm taking up the mantle of being an evangelist and spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ, son of God, who came down from his deity of Jesus in heaven to become man on earth and to take our sins upon himself, sacrificially. So that we could have everlasting life with God because sin separates us from God.

[00:34:12] God does not separate us from him. Sin separates us from God. Therefore, when we have the opportunity to choose God who died for our sins and reject that, therefore we reject God. Not that God sends us to hell for Sydney. So what's next avenue. Is to teach the church and it's okay to spread the gospel and then to go across America and share the love of Jesus and tell people he's coming back, you loves you, and he wants you a part of his family and he died for that.


[00:34:50] David Dowlen: Now people can find you here at the whole person podcast website. If you're watching YouTube video is up. Now, if you're on audio, guys, it is Sarah. Www the whole person podcast.com. Easy enough to remember the guys. You can go here for Evans podcast. Is there anywhere else? They can find you? Evan, you

[00:35:14] Evan Herrman: can find me on every social platform.

[00:35:17] Uh, Facebook is my go-to and if you want to call me my number's nine one one. 6 2 5 7 0 7 3. My email is Evan, Evan, herman.com. I am super easy to get ahold of. So if you want to hate on me, just call me and then I love on you. It depends on how bad you were to me. I may or may not block your number.

[00:35:40] David Dowlen: We're at a point in the world where you can't sit on the sidelines anymore.

[00:35:46] You're going to have to make a choice and plant your flag on what you believe. Now you can believe what Evan believes or what I believe, or you can have totally different beliefs and we can have a dialogue and conversation, and that's fine. We don't all have to agree on everything. As long as we keep calm having conversations, that's how we move forward.

[00:36:06] That's how we get past the hate and the nastiness that's in the world right now, but we need to keep having these dialogues, but you need to find what you believe in plant that.

[00:36:19] Evan Herrman: Politics. Isn't going to be the place where it's done, because here's the thing nothing's done in politics. No, never. And what I'm about to say, okay, I want you all to hear me.

[00:36:33] Hear me, hear me this, hear me now. We are moving away from Democrat versus Republican. We are now entering in a phase of life where things are speeding up more rapidly. Good versus evil. And I'm not talking about like one political party is good and the other one's evil. There's good and evil in every area in facet of life.

[00:36:56] But evil is making its mark and being shouted from the rooftops and we need to stand against it.


[00:37:05] David Dowlen: So one of my favorite quotes of all time, the only thing necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do not. Thank you for taking the time to hang out with us, go check out the whole person podcast with Evan He